Nash League Season 1 Breakdown & Season 2 proposal

Hi everyone,

I very much admire all people who have been contributing to growth of Nash besides official staff. People like Nick, Fabii, Dulaj and many more who have built some features or tools community can use.

Therefore I’m here to share anticipated outcome of work I’ve been doing since Nash League Season 1 started. Building products, monitoring and analysing it in order to be able to iterate and optimise, is what I love and do for a living. Thanks to public data as well feedback coming from all of you I’ve been able to come up with proposal that is data-driven and should provide better results in coming seasons.

It’s a massive number of information I wanna to share with you so it wouldn’t be possible to just write a post. Therefore I made a video (4.5hrs duration) where I’m dealing with every single topic Season 1 related. To make it easy to watch and navigate through, go to description and use links leading directly to topics you are the most interesting in. Just be aware that skipping some parts may cause lack of some context needed to know in order to understand the final proposal. So it’s recommended to watch it all.

I’m fully open to hear any feedback, let this video to be a kick off for any discussions or brainstorms. Enjoy!

Youtube video

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After 1h in : this is scary to know that competition will know this, or people who don’t like Nash.

I just wish that this video would be available only for people that will use all the statistics to improve Nash.

Could you please share it only with Nash team?

Thank you

good point… I guess the team is still having holiday and I’m not sure if anybody in the team would be even interested… can anybody suggest next steps?

Thanks for your work!

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Thank you for your this great analysis Lukas. I am proud to share the community with such smart and hard working guys that have great enthusiasm for this project. Keep this up!

Nash is one of the most transparent crypto projects out there so in light of that I would not hide this video because even the most die-hard trolls will not invest 4.5h for this. However, you could make it so that only people that have a direct link can see the video.

I would also suggest making more detailed timestamps (and much more of them) in description box below the video, so that the people that want to learn from this can have an easier time managing all the points you are making since it’s such a long video. 4.5h video is not a problem if your important points or references are clearly marked (timestamped) so please consider this to make your points easier to consume.

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added descriptions to the sections, will be divided into several more soon

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So if I work 19h per day for a month and somebody works less then that, clearly is not ok to be rewarded the same ( even if that person is my brother, I don’t want him to grow dependent and live of my efforts, because I love him he needs to stay strong and take care of himself (biologically this is important for our cells to keep dividing and cleaning up the body from bad cells. When there is no meaning to grow then is when the cells slow down in their functions and the body dies soon after ) )
Is not about that I don’t want to share, its like SPARTA movie, 300 people need to be strong, not only 10 that are in front. ( in our case people that are in the back need to keep working out and get stronger so they can help to win. Doesn’t matter that I am 10 times smaller, I can help in the battle anyway and I am appreciated for that. In my case I don’t even have access to trading but this doesn’t make me feel less or be less important ).
In our case hopefully people in front would actively share their strategies and help everyone succeed.

Hopefully you see what I mean :handshake:
Thank you.

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I know exactly what you mean… the thing is that world is full of injustice and is not fair… youtuber making haircuts earning milions compared to exhausted nurse or fireman, etc… so it’s like comparing apples and oranges…

this league is competitive environment where we both trade against each orther while at the same time we colectively fight together for better future of Nash… and the volume is our tool here. If that top trader can learn you how to do it without a big loss, even better => more volume => more rewards for you…

Nash can decided to make simple proportional distribution, mine is definitely riskier

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Thank you. Watched the whole thing. :star_struck:
Looking forward to end-of-competition roundup. Maybe could colaborate and coauthor with Nash team ? Imo Nash should consider contract you to take ownership of next league… Season 2 without captains, but Lukas for president :clap:

To be honest before watching this I was afraid that it might be a bit derogatory against Nash team, but in the end I liked your insights from a product manager point of view and I’m a big fan of your data driven reasoning.

  • What I found interesting was that many indicate to be trading in loss and that you end up modeling the reward distribution from a loss recovery perspective. (and it somehow makes sense still).

  • You convinced me that the competition doesn’t need spectacular new features to make it more engaging while simple structural changes could make impact as well. (just realtime P/L and rewards tracking would be nice to have though)

  • Let ANYBODY to join ANY team ANYTIME sound interesting to me.

:video_camera: For people afraid of the length. You can comfortably watch the video at 150% playback speed. (behind the youtube radar icon :wink: )

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From Fabio “hoarding cats” expression:

  • people like to be like cats, to come and go freely, do whatever freely, to be pulled in because of good food and, warm comfortable place… ( free to join and change squads anytime)

For me working the entire month worrying if I will get paid :flushed:, is not happening. ( if my efforts are rewarded hourly & rewarded well & fair, I will definitely work overtime). ( active rewards just like suggested in the video, also NEX staking is a good example, every 24h)
( you stake 1000 NEX for 24 months, you get rewarded for 1000 NEX 24 months )

Most people being motivated to help Nash grow, not because of trading profits or rewards but because of same values, vision, future growth potential, tells that Nash is attracting amazing people that are long term visionaries. Amazing video!

I really hope to hear @canesin point of view.

Thank you :handshake:

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Hi @lukaskorba

Firstly, it’s great to see members of the community putting so much effort into thinking about how to grow Nash. Fantastic job on your video.

However, I did notice something that you may have misinterpreted about the rewards at each level unlocked.

At the 22 min mark, you assumed that the 1st prize pool changing from $15,000 to $16,250 for level 1 and 2 respectively results in only a $1,250 incentive for first place to reach the next the $25M volume level.

This is completely different to my understanding. First prize would get $15,000 for Level 1 ($50M volume generated).

First prize would get an additional $16,250 for reaching Level 2 (+$25M volume generated).

If the same team won both Level 1 and 2, they would earn a total of $31,250 upon reaching Level 2.

Therefore, the incentive more than doubled on a $/volume basis.

Does anyone else interpret it the same way?

I don’t think you can carry over the moneybags across levels.

3:49:42

something like this?

If they’re effectively gamifying trading with this competition, then I do think they would greatly benefit from working with gamedevs; people who have a lot of experience with quest design & critical gameplay design, motivating the player, psychology, etc.

I agree with the model at 3:30:35 - another option is they could have the large squads be comprised of several smaller teams, so that those teams could compete with one another within the same squad, and then tie the model into that in some way. Even if a team ranks #7th within their squad, their combined efforts helps everyone in the squad win. More engagement, more interesting, but also have to be careful not to make things too convoluted.

I like the P/L prize, but it’s too obscure and feels like a total crapshoot. There’s no way to know if some monster trader has 1,200% profit compared to your 45% profit; not knowing if your efforts are in vain throughout the entire month. Even if this were transparent, most would quickly give up upon seeing a gap of that magnitude. There’s a lot of “self-fulfilling prophecy” in the current design, where people lose all hope, give up entirely, which snowballs into other participants doing the same. The only reason I’m still trading is because “maybe I’m not doing terribly on the invisible P/L scale”. Otherwise I think I might’ve stopped, as I personally don’t believe level 2 will be unlocked, and it feels pointless to continue with the current lack of activity.

I wouldn’t mind if the P/L prize gets stripped, provided that partition of the prize pool goes towards something meaningful and engaging (I’ve no idea how many people are currently incorporating P/L into their strategy).

One thing to keep in mind - and there’s been a lot of studies surrounding this - is the psychology behind motivation. Here’s a random link:

If people believe that their efforts have little-to-no influence over an outcome, or their future, then they tend not to be high achievers, and will give up rather easily.

Edit: P/L rewards a vast minority for “ability”. The current prize level system feels to reward a non-majority for their ability also. I don’t think it’s necessarily bad to recognize a person’s ability, however, you probably don’t want to design the competition to feel like a slap in the face for >60% of people who put in effort.

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I wish to be true but it’s not… you can see it right in the desc of that level 2… Squad pool is $25k but this time you need to split it for two teams resulting in 16.25k for 1st one and 8.75k for the 2nd one…

also clear from the reward split defined above… 55k split like 50% for squads, 30% for solo, 10 and 10 for P/L and new accounts… 55k * 0.5 is actually 27.5k so even Nash make it wrong here distributing only 25k… anyway… still true that from lvl1 to lvl2 there’s only $1250 difference for the 1st team

@Vaugrin at this point I wouldn’t mind if it’s just a number in the same outline box

Current Volume
$17,453,228

Ulocked Prize Pool
$10,435

This progress bar component is also fine

but there are a few downsides… the scale… if there’s 1M at the right end those 50M would be barely visible and noticable (it’s just 1/20 of the overall scale)… So it would have to be somehow leveled so you see it growing fastly… but that linear proposal is not leveled anymore… Like I said, the way how to design it is something Nash team can handle by many ways… simple numbers could be enough for Season 2 from feasibility point of view

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//Sorry for the wall of text

Thanks for the insights and your efforts to publish data about the Nash League. You really did a great job!

I’ve watched about 90% of the video with the one or the other skip in some sections, but I think I got your points and can go for a good comment from my perspective towards your conclusions.

First of all I want to comment on all five points you have suggested at the end and what I have understand.


This point attacks the topic of how the price pool is split and how traders can participate in the competition. Also it clears up which type of rewards are distributed. Therefore, there will be an equal split between solo and squad from the price pool. Additionally, the prices for captains, top traders, special and P/L will be erased.

Not part of this point is how prices will be distributed in the solo section and squad section. This is part of point 2.


image

Here it is about how the price pools will be distributed towards the winning traders of the competition. In my view this point also covers one of the main thesis how you designed the next iteration for nash league: “traders lose money while trading and part of their losses should be covered

Not part of this point is how the solo traders and squads are rewarded. For example who is eligible for prices.


Point 3 is about how traders can join different squads. This also covers one of your main thesis on which your version of the iteration is built up. “Traders should be able to join any squad at any time”. Additionally, it is about which traders from a squad are qualified for prices of the squad. This is determined with a dynamic threshold.

Not part of this point is how solo’s are rewarded and what threshold is necessary for them.


image

This part is about erasing the current levels with different volume thresholds to unlock different prices pools. Through this there isn’t a phase where trades see N/A until the first level is unlocked. Instead now in a linear function prices will be calculated and will rise through the whole competition.


As you mentioned in the video the duration of the competition doesn’t matter this is about generating a regular motivation to trade and provide traders a possibility to additionally win the one or the other price while the main competition is running. When the competition take about 4 weeks there will be 4 lotteries.


Now I want to comment on what I like about this suggestion:

  • The dynamic eligibility rule, which sets the necessary threshold for qualifying for rewards
  • The weekly lottery to keep traders active throughout the competition and add additional rewards
  • The approach to avoid time periods, where traders don’t see their prices they would currently receive

Now the points I don’t like about this suggestion:

  • The thesis “Join any squad, any time”
  • The thesis “Cover loss with prices”
  • Split the price pool 50:50 between solo and squads

Let me explain why I’m not a fan of those. These three are kinda married in my opinion. The first point allowing traders to “join any squad at any time” is the reason why the point “cover loss with prices” is even a big topic in my opinion.

Why?

Lets say the cloud bot squad is limited to 25 traders. With the current distribution model the top 10 traders will receive the same amount as before. But the traders from place 11 to 25 are now only sharing the rewards between 14 traders. Now the rewards would be shared with the traders from place 11 to 88 (current snapshot) which results in 77 traders. So, for each trader in the limited squad is a bigger part of the price pool available. Also with the suggested pow distribution model (which I really like!) the traders should receive their fair share.

What I also want to mention is that a big focus while distributing the prices among the squad was only the team cloudbots. I’m mean yes it would be nice if they get their prices and can cover parts of their losses, but still all the other teams like nashians or fabibis team aren’t able to cover their losses until different levels are unlocked.

So now why is also the price pool split married with those two? Well if we split the price pool 50:50 between solo and squad and I can join any squad any time I would definitely wait until the end of the competition. Then people want to win in the squad competition. Everyone is joining the winning squad. Now we have just created a second solo competition which is a mirror to the real solo competition. Therefore, traders should still decide: do they wan to participate solo or do they want to participate in a squad.

If that is the case, I would prefer to have liquidity mining instead of the nash league.


How I would iterate the competition?

  • Have solo and squads split and compete only in one
  • Empower the squad leaders to kick/invite traders and set a price distribution model
  • Each squad/trader has its own linear rising price pool - no global price pools
  • Set total exchange volumes as targets to raise the received price pools with %
  • Add the weekly lottery

Why?

There are people who don’t want to be part of squads. Therefore they should be able to participate on their own.

Empowering squad leaders will lead to better squad communities and better social interacting among those squads themselves.

Having each squad or trader have their own price pools will keep them active to trade because only they can unlock the price. Now people can bet on other squads to unlock the necessary volumes.

Raising the percentage of the price pools for each squad or trader with the total volume of the exchange will still keep an shared goal between all participants of the competition.

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This is a great idea. I like it.

This will mean that lower volume squads can still feel motivated to keep trading regardless of the leading squads.

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would that be possible with only $30k : $50M ratio? If there are 8 squads and you would like to have 8 prize pools, how to split those 30k?

I mean… give me $100k for 50M volume and I will design a competition that will break sky… We have to be reasonable, it has to be sustainable… Therefore I decided to keep $30k and solved it by making all part of solo category… So everybody will win something (once eligible) with a chance to increase profit with (some) squad…

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More or less the price pool is a function of the traded volume. Nash can’t (shouldn’t) payout more than the traded volume generates for nash.

With generating price pools I can use:

  • total exchange volume to generate global price pools
  • total squad volume/solo trader volume to generate price pools for a squad

The current ratio of $30k : $50M is a result from the share nash earns from the payed fees. $50M generates $31.250 revenue for nash under the circumstances all NEX are staked and each taker order pays a fee of 0.25%. These values aren’t true to 100% because high volume traders reached different taker fee levels and not all NEX token are staked.

When we now take the approach of the total squad volume generates the price pool for the squad we can go the following:

Team Fabibi generated $7M.
$7M earned a total fee of $17.500. (assumption: all pay 0.25% taker fee)
$13.125 from the $17.500 get paid to the NEX stakers (assumption: 50M NEX Token staked for 24 months)
resulting in $4.375 nash has earned through the fees.

$4.000 of those $4.375 can now be rewarded to the Team Fabibi.

Now we have a ratio of $4k : $7M which is nearly the same as the ratio $30k : $50M

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true @Symiaq … the thing is

IF we allow all solo to win something as well as all squads to win something (both based on volume), will it still be a competition?

If we do that, it’s just liquidity mining format divided into several leaderboards but all take just a portion of the $$$ based on volume…

I say, if all squads receive what they deserved, there’s no reason to hold and defend the idea of squads besides social aspect… you would remove the competition aspect, making it less clear… the better model would be to have only one big leaderboard which has been suggested by some people anyway…

It’s The League, it was supposed to be a competition where not all are winners… but the season 1 is too “cruel” resulting is many churned traders… I wanna make changes that make it more soft but still keeping the competition in place…

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