Nash League - suggestions and ideas for S02

Community
#3

Firstly I’d just like to start by saying that this Squad trading competition concept is fantastic and I love the way it has resonated with the community. Lots of users who may not have otherwise tried trading or using a bot have done so, and I hope they continue to do so once the competition ends. I also hope we have appealed to a new user base.

Here are some of my suggestions, many which will be known.

(1) Limit the size of Squads to a predefined number. Although we have found that those with the biggest numbers doesn’t necessarily correlate to a winning Squad or largest volume, it does has a direct consequence on the rewards received by Squad members in a winning team, which then has a direct impact on motivation/willingness to continue trading.

(2) Empower Squad ‘captains’ have more control on who joins their team, rather than the existing free-for-all and users clamouring to join a winning team.

(3) Change the trading requirements to be eligible for prizes. For example, someone in a Squad that is in the top 2 for example, and are far away from the Top 10 within that Squad, has not further incentive to trade after meeting the minimum $20K requirement; especially if trading at a loss. Perhaps adopting a similar requirement which was seen in Liquidity Mining, where a minimum trading amount per day and a minimum number of days (for example, trade $5000 for 20 out of the 30 days). It also helps to provide trading throughout the competition. We can see that some traders in just week 2 have already stopped because some results are already clear.

(4) Change the deadline for when a new user can join a Squad. For example, lots of new users joined Cloudbot after looking at the first few days trading and seeing how the competition could play out. I would either remove the deadline requirement, or significantly reduce it.

(5) Change the Squad reward payout, so the more you trade, the more you earn. There is likely to be a huge discrepancy between the volume generated by the person finishing 11th in a winning Squad, and the person finishing 100th; however the payout will be identical in the current setup.

(6) Perhaps provide weekly rewards to maintain momentum and help to continue encourage trading. So, Top Trader for week 1, Top performer within the Squad at week 2, etc, % gain in places in week 3, etc. Badges or some sort of acknowledgement would be amazing. Perhaps an adjustment of the reward payouts may be required to accommodate this concept.

These are just some initial thoughts.

Cheers.

11 Likes
#4

Actually I think that JSP summed up all of the problems we are having and the solutions which I also thought about with few minor changes.

JSP talked about Liquidity Mining rewards system inside a team, currently I tend to think that it’s god idea, but It only should apply to places 11 to bottom to keep a competition style inside a team to be ranked 1-10, while not fearing to be placed out of 1-10 and get paid like number 80.

I like the idea of limiting team numbers (there are plenty ways to make that happen if it’s by personal invite, group settings that pre define its size limited/unlimited) ,But that have to come with incentive that would make teams keep on trading. if there are only X amount of teams that can win, That might generate cases which teams will stop trading because stronger teams are far ahead. So what I’m thinking of is for each tier that opens a winning team will get a major prize while the other teams would split the minor pool like singles Liquidity Mining weighted prize but for a team.

In numbers:
let say Tier 1: Prize pool is 30,000$ 1 team splits 15,000$ other teams split 15,000$ according to their total trading. Team that traded 10M will get more than a team that traded 1M.

2 Likes
#5

In my opinion:

  1. A month is too long, many get tired sooner or have no more funds or time to dedicate (hence the idea of ​​weekly payments could be beneficial)

  2. I don’t like the idea of ​​Squads, I would prefer to compete on a personal level as in the mining competition and thus avoid the phenomenon of ‘parasitism’ (people who do not trade hoping for others or who do the minimum so something takes the same because it is in the winning team) this is not the type of customer Nash needs, if we really want to keep the teams to have more team spirit and competition I would still say to divide them by use of the software used (cloudbot with Dulaj, browser bot with Fabibi etc etc)

  3. As it emerges from point 2, the rewards must be equated to the generated volume, someone who makes 20k cannot take the same amount as those who make 1M just because he is in a large team

  4. The Squad may be chosen before and not after having seen the trend (always to return to point 2)

amen.

3 Likes
#6

I don’t think you need to limit team max size. What if one of the team members would like to onboard some new traders? If the team max size is reached the new guys would have to form their own team but this could discourage them to participate in the competition altogether because they would have much lower chances for prizes in a newly formed team.

Nash League is a great way to onboard new users and if they have the opportunity to join a thriving team this would dramatically raise their chances of on boarding. They might even be motivated to invite other people into the team they are joining to further increase their chances of getting the rewards. We need to keep the idea of rewards alive and within reach so we maximize the chances of getting new users because, if done right, we could have a small snowball effect. This is exactly what Nash League is all about. All this would be severely hampered if a cap on team size would be implemented.

Solution: The team captains should have the admin powers in their teams to confirm (or reject) the acceptance of any teammates that want to join in. This would ensure that only people that agreed with the captain can be in the team and it would not discourage anybody to join the team, even last minute. But no max size.

One other suggestion for the Nash team; I think there is a big pool of people that had their first encounter with trading through cryptocurrencies. Nash team should talk to YouTubers that have trading courses, that teach TA and bots. Nash community developed simple and advanced free bots so Nash is a great place to start experimenting with bots. Explaining the advantages of orderbooks over liquidity pools (or atomic swaps) is another great point that many newbie traders don’t grasp. The fact that Nash is the only exchange that trades real btc and not crypto IOU-s like other exchanges (CEX or DEX). All this could be said in a 30 sec video animation and these are some very important points. On boarding the newbies is a good strategy because crypto is a growing market so let’s educate them and welcome them to our platform.

1 Like
#7

  1. Nash does not currently have offer a bot, but I’d like to see it offer it’s “official” bot as an alternative to partner and community options. In addition, it would be nice to have a primer on common technical analysis tools (e.g. Ichimoku) that professionals use; then you can show which bot options may offer said tools.

  2. Proportional trading rewards. I think there is an ongoing incentive if you break the minimum (20K) volume and know your reward grows the more you contribute.

  3. I am not sure what the priorities are with adding additional assets, but adding another highly liquid pair would create new promotional material for season 2.

  4. Can the generated volume be depicted in a more exciting way than just numbers? I’m visualizing the thermostat people use for fundraisers, but I imagine the design team can be more creative.

1 Like
#8

Whenever I think of incentivizing and gamifying participation, I think of one company who has consistently been doing it better than the rest: Valve. Specifically, with their game DotA 2.

wat.

…I know. But hear me out.

Every year, there’s a big DotA 2 championship tournament with all the best teams/players. It’s called The International. It’s a pretty big deal in esports, but what really excites people is how big the prize pool gets. A list of the top 10 esport prize pools in history:

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Not included in the list is The International 2020 – currently sitting at $40M+ and still climbing slowly.

The International Battle Pass

How does the prize pool get so big? Before the tournament begins, Valve releases for sale a Battle Pass ($10 USD) and 25% of all Battle Pass proceeds go to the tournament prize pool. Once obtained, users can ‘level up’ their Battle Pass by completing certain objectives in-game and out of game. This includes daily & weekly ‘quests’, tournament predictions, guild (Squad) missions, and other fun mini-games. Completing these objectives nets you Battle Points, which level up your Battle Pass. Each level of your Battle Pass comes with rewards. A user requires the same amount of Battle Points per level, no matter how levelled their Battle Pass gets (this isn’t an MMO). Each Battle Pass level requires 100 Battle Points for a level and that level comes with a reward. 100 Battle Points can be gained in the span of a few hours if you’re lucky/good at the game/willing to grind. AKA, Battle Pass levelling is linear.

Nash League isn’t DotA 2 – or even a video game for that matter…

Correct. But we can analyze the Battle Pass to see what gets people excited, what drives participation and – ultimately – what raises that $ value. Just a couple ideas off the top of my head:

:point_right: Milestones

:x: Nash League S1’s FIRST volume milestone is $50M. It’s been a week and we as a community haven’t been able to celebrate reaching the first tier yet.

:white_check_mark: Lower the first milestone, and add more tiers in between, perhaps. Battle Pass levels can be gained every few hours. Obviously that’s too fast for Nash League, but reaching a volume milestone maybe every 3-4 days would do wonders for moral. Traders want to know some rewards have been locked-in and that a reward is confirmed to be in the pipeline. More tiers, same prize pool. A prize pool that increases more slowly among several tiers is certainly more exciting than a prize pool that leaps after giant volume increases. Sense of progress comes from hammering off those tiers, one-by-one.

:point_right: Squad Participation

:x: I agree with others, the flat $20,000 limit unfortunately doesn’t work because users will just stop once they hit that checkpoint. To paint a picture of how this plays out, that required limit is similar to pushing your steer from behind when ploughing your field. Users will push, push, push until they get it, and then stop with a sigh of relief once it’s over. Alternatively…

:white_check_mark: Sit on the steer, string a carrot to a fishing pole, dangle it out in front and watch it plough your field until the end of time. The Battle Pass provided players with a wide range of options to incentivize ‘ploughing their field’. Here’s an example of Battle Pass guild incentives for players:

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Am I suggesting we implement literal quests into Nash League? Not really. How about we take the idea of Daily Contracts and Guild Challenges? Translate that into trading and we get…Daily Volume goals/user and Squad Volume goals/week maybe? It could be anything – the idea is that Nash users will have a reason to turn their bot on in the morning.

What rewards could come from these daily/weekly goals? How aboutttttt…

Some sort of ticket situation? Users and Squads get tickets for completing their dailies/weeklies, and tickets are entered into a draw at the end of the competition for a cut of the “Ticket Pool” (which grows by hitting higher tiers like the other pools), Nash Store swag, and trading terminal licenses (Haas, Gunbot, etc).

To sum up: A steer chasing a carrot will move infinitely farther than a steer being pushed from behind.

Conclusion

I know it seems silly to bring an esports game into this, but Valve has been perfecting ways of increasing participating and gamifying a prize pool over the last ~six years. I would legitimately not be surprised if they have even reached out to Economists, Marketing specialists, and Psychologists to achieve this. In fact, Valve was so successful in implementing the Battle Pass that it has its own Wikipedia page now.

Real talk. A phone call to Valve isn’t a half-bad idea :joy:

Sorry for rambling. These were just my high-level, ‘philosophical’ thoughts on how to drive excitement around League. Unfortunately I wasn’t able to participate (Team Sad Canadians for life :maple_leaf:), so I don’t have metrics on P/L and how that affects my experience.

17 Likes
Gamification of Nash League
#9

Great suggestions :+1:
I just have one issue with limiting the number of people allowed to join a quad, which is, most squads provide bot trading services so limiting the number will essentially exclude people from using these bots. But I totally get your concern.

3 Likes
#10

What if you could stake a person or a team? Say I don’t have the time or knowledge but I allocate 1000$ towards the competition. this 1000$ could be used to fund a bot that copies the traders you like. the volume counts toward the total of the player that you choose. If that player wins you get a part of the winnings plus profit or minus loss.
Greatly enhances the social effect.

I always hated running. but then I got a device which collected my data and made it visual on a dashboard. I started enjoying it because I had a goal: improving my statistics. would be nice to recreate that in a online result dash. More data where you can improve your trading stats.

Also a more vivid / exciting way to show that people gained a place, or lost 1. Or you had a great win! look at slotmachines. people know they’re gonna lose money in the longrun but they stick around anyway. Why? for the “winning feeling” provided by the bells and the lights! they want to feel the excitement.

Also this could be a chance to give daily or weekly updates by mail or through the app. This pulls users back to the platform. I use the cloudbot and love the telegram bells! when they start ringing I know BTC is volatile and I’m making money. It makes me want to check the site and the nash platform multiple times a day.

Maybe something like Bot strategy award?
Who gets the highest win ratios with a specific bot? size does not matter.
You can use the data for future presetting and designing Nash bots.

Also a (flywheel) referral element would be nice. Say that if you recruit somebody to the competition his or her volume counts as 20% towards your own?

Most of us have just a touch of online “nerdiness” can we please earn digital badges/awards which we can show of using the platform? maybe get the rights to a exclusive botstrategy? limited edition hoodies/mugs or whatever.

Try to involve the rest of the Nash platform? some exclusive prices from the swag store?
future sponsor giveaways together with Nash link enabled stores? 1 month of fee-less trading on the exchange?

Looking forward to the next 1!!

9 Likes
#11

Key takeaway I think, is to go with a design that: builds quick momentum, feels meaningful (as opposed to feeling futile), and encourages prolonged involvement.

You’re effectively wanting to hype people up, so that they tell their friends and hype them up as well, and then all get involved. You want to engage people emotionally, and provide them with a purpose to trade - several challenges, one of which is appealing to them. (P/L is a good example - it’s not a volume race, but still requires active trading).

Why not make the draw or ticket acquisition a daily occurrence, for users who have placed a trade within the last 1, 2, or 4 hours. If they don’t know when it’s coming, then it encourages people to simply leave a bot running (I believe that only CloudBot currently caters to this, as a simple plug & play solution that users can set & forget. They got inundated with users when the competition launched. We need more of this, and then to incentivize leaving it running).

At the very least, this could ensure that non-winning teams don’t leave empty-handed; give them a metric(people are so obsessed with metrics) they can focus on winning other than sheer volume, if it becomes apparent they have no chance at winning that race. Preferably something they’ll care about.

Agreed. The current levels feels like a real drag; possibly not quote so bad with more participation and volume, but having 1, 2, or 3 smaller unlockables in between them would be nice. Doesn’t have to be anything fancy.

Other exchanges will probably read all of this.

2 Likes
#12

Good Morning

Overall i like the core idea of Nash League a lot. Gratz to that.

Things to improve:

  1. Max Quantity for Squads
  2. Reward distribution within a winning Squad just by contributed Volume
  3. Implementation of badges / achievements. (maybe this could be done for the whole nash platform, not just within Nash League)
  4. I feel besides Nash League it would be really great to have a liquidity mining as well. For me a good example for a sucess is the liq. mining on NOIA starting with the listing. So maybe we could just make a reduced (in terms of rewards) liq. mining for every new project / token listed on nash. Think that would be awesome.
1 Like
#13
  • Season 2 -> no more squad. Traders don’t understand why it is better to join squad 1 than squad 2…
  • $1mio price max with several levels. The more volumes are generated by traders, higher is the price pool. $20 000 min to start earning a price : 1mio * (Volume / Total volume). All traders together to pump the volume in order to pump the price pool.
  • Bonus for 2 years stakers.
  • No end date for registration.
  • Trader reward is simply defined by its volume. In this case, new traders can join the contest at anytime and traders will not stop trading before the end of the contest.
  • Traders ranking : display “future” rewards to motivate the generation of more volumes (or to keep this position and reward)

In fact it’s a “liquidity program” but with $1mio price… Your “liquidity program” was good but price pool was too small to bring all traders.

Remember : the more simple it is, the more traders will participate. It is useless to create several contests with several price pools.

#14

All great ideas! Wat a big, cool and great community does Nash have! :hugs:

#15

Thanks for the suggestions, keep them coming. Specially thanks to ppivee for elaborating the DOTA2 model in such depth, and JSP. Thanks for Lukas also for the questionnaire.

As you can see here, its not easy to make a model that is satisfying for everyone - half of you love the team competition, half of you want it trashed. That’s why we made both team and individual competitions in the first place.

Because of timing of first season of Nash League we have created pretty loose request for prize eligibility (over 20k of volume) and didn’t copied the one from liquidity mining because its time of Christmas and New Year holidays, and we can not expect people to make daily obligated for example 10k of volume during these days.

There are some great suggestions for season 2 (keep them coming) but on first sight we will have to change the way we distribute the awards for places outside of top 10. I’m also thinking of adding a option where captains can choose whether to let anyone join a team or make a closed team (only with invite link or similar), so we have both of those options covered.

Thank you for the feedback, and season 1 is still on until 15th of January, so still a lot more to trade for, and a lot of time to post new ideas and suggestions.

4 Likes
#16

Many suggestions are already mentioned above such as the proportional rewards, a bonus for stakers (make it small like 10%) and the daily minimum instead of 20k threshold.

But I agree most with @pplvee, we need to celebrate more often. So a few ideas regarding milestones:

  • A daily ‘lucky’ trader: person wins a prize daily just by trading (atleast $5000 for example). So everyday Nash can announce that they have a winner. Prize should be small, something like $100 dollars. Could be for one newly joined active trader or all active traders can be eligible (perhaps instead of cash, give them an item from the nash swag store).

  • A weekly prize for the person who has the most referalls who deposited coins or cash on their account.

  • A bonus above the normal prices when for instance level 1 is reached before X days. Should be easier for earlier levels and harder for later levels.

2 Likes
#17

BlockquoteI’m also thinking of adding a option where captains can choose whether to let anyone join a team or make a closed team (only with invite link or similar), so we have both of those options covered.

Yes, team captains should have some admin powers and it would be great if a user could reach them (exchange private messages within Nash League or they provide an outside contact).

Also, I agree with the general sentiment that prizes should be much smaller but distributed in a way you have the urge to check your phone like dozens of times a day. Also, in that way it would be much harder to hit the certain threshold after which you don’t trade anymore. Small, continuous prizes are better than cap-hitting big prizes.

Also, adding various achievements, something like ppivee mentioned is a great idea. Like a reward to a team that attracts most users (with minimal average volume), best newcomers, etc. Various achievements that incentivize expanding the userbase.

1 Like
#18

Overall I like the basic design of the competition. It is good that all are working together on the one side to unlock bigger achievments (levels) and on the other side squads/solos are incentiviced to gain higher ranks through trading in the ladder and each individual in a squad is competing against each other to gain higher ranks inside a squad.

A already mentioned topic, the rewards system for squads after specific ranks, is in my perspective not rewarding players to further trade after reaching their 20k threshold. This should change.

Also the amount of members of a squad isn’t handled quite good in my opinion. Some just waited one week checked out which squads will get a price, joined the team, do 20k volume and benefit from the afforts of the squad. Additionally every person joining with this motivation a team smallers the rewards for players who are trying the push the squad, but can’t reach the top 10.

So I would like to see an empowered squad leader. He can decide who is allowed to join the squad and get also abilities to kick people from the squad. Both things are only only possible before a season started. Also I would give the team captain the ability to set a way how prices in the squad will be distributed in the squad at the end of the competition (can only be changed with permission of the squad to avoid fraud).
Also users should have the chance to decide if they want to leave or join a squad as often as they want while the competition isn’t active.
Squad should have inherent levels. Talking about this a squad starts at level 1 and can level up till level 30 for example. Every new level unlocks two things: increased amount of possible people in the squad for the next season, unlocks a better price pool for the squad.

The bigger goal for all squads together should still be to unlock different total exchange volumes. So everyone is working together. But this time the levels won’t unlock prices for the squad, the will unlock a specific bonus for all pariticipating squads.

  • 50 Million: +5% on all squad prices
  • 75 Million: +7.5% on all squad prices
  • 100 Million: +10% on all squad prices
  • …

For example:
Squad 5 generated a total of 5 Million and with this they reached the squad level 12. Squad level 12 unlocks a price pool of 5000$ for the squad. At the end of the competition 108 Million were traded and the 10% bonus was unlocked. With this the price for the squad raised from 5000$ to 5500$. Now this amount will be distributed among the participants of the squad with the set distribution key of the squad leader.

Guess thats how I could imagine myself a further iteration of the nash league. What I’m still thinking about is if there should be a break between seasons. I think a break of 1 or 2 weeks would be good to reassemble a squad, get new players, players can leave and prepare new strategies. This gap between two seasons could be filled up with a new coin listing and additional liquidity mining.

4 Likes
#19

a month is a strange period. it is too short but also too long. better split it up.

League for 1 quarter for existing customers (ROI, existing customer loyalty)

small events over a week or two for example with new listings of coins
(entertain existing customers, win new ones)

and then pure (new) customer acquisition. for example € 50 credit when creating an account (currently under)

the league tries to be everything, but that doesn’t work (in my opinion) because the target group is too different

#20

First of all i would like to thank the nash team for putting together this competition :slight_smile:

Changes that i think might be nice to have:

Make the competition last 5 weeks with pay outs every week, starting Monday morning in the EU, first week target 20mil with top 2 squads getting rewards, solo’s, p&l etc. Second week make it 30mil target with 3 squads getting rewards, third week 40mil and 4 squads, fourth week 50mil and 5 squads and finally fifth week 60mil and 5 squads.

Add some NEX to the rewards and make squads 12 people max, give even payouts to all participants, no squad leader or top trader bonus in usdc only NEX say 1000 NEX for top trader and 500 NEX for squad leader. Add something for top 3 traders like 300 NEX for number 2, 200 for number 3 and 100 for number four.

Break the squads every week so people can switch squads if they want, form new one’s etc.

Squad leader should always be the one that made the bot the squad uses or someone that the squad leader gave his place.

If weekly volume is greater than the target give out NEX rewards say x2 NEX rewards if volume is x2 greater than target etc.

That’s all for now :smiley:

3 Likes
#21

Let me start off by saying I’m impressed with the level of suggestions in this thread. Once again Nash community shows how smart and constructive it is collectively.

Below I’ve tried to tear down the current issues into atomic problems.

Problem: once you’ve reached a certain qualifying threshold or lead, you may feel like any additional trading is unnecessary.
Solution: incentivize sustainable trading.

Problem: some pairs are heavily favored, making other pairs less liquid and harder to trade on.
Solution: incentivize multiple pairs.

Problem: choosing between squad and solo can be difficult and you may feel regrets
Solution: allow competing in both squad and solo categories simultaneously.

Problem: the original vision was that there would be more squads, of smaller size (otherwise the “Others” rewards category would have been thought out differently). There are actually less than half a dozen squads seriously competing and as a result gaps between squads are huge which discourages competition.
Solution: cut down competition length (weekly instead of monthly) and limit squad max size

Problem: Some traders don’t feel rewarded fairly: they receive the same rewards as some who have traded less.
Solution: Make rewards proportional to volume, or better yet effort

As a result of the above issues and solutions, this is my suggestion :

You can create a squad or join from an invitation link. Squads can have 2, 3 or 4 players.

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Solo and squads competitions are simultaneous. You are by default competing for the “Solo” category, but even if you join a squad, your volume also counts towards your Solo volume.

Traders compete for League Points (LP). Bonuses reward consistency and trading across multiple pairs.

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Example:

Trader A generates $1M (maker) volume on a single pair on a single day: he will earn 1,111,100 LP (1M + 100 + 1,000 + 10,000 + 100,000) for his squad.

Trader B generates $10k (maker) on 5 different pairs for 7 consecutive days (i.e 350k volume): he will earn 579,900 LP (350k + (100 + 1,000) * (1 + 2 + 3 + 5) * (1 + 1 + 3 + 1 + 5 + 1 + 7)) for his squad.

You can switch between your available squads in the top right-hand corner.

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Note that when you select a squad, you still compete in the Solo category.

The competition results are available in-app for squad divisions (2 players, 3 players and 4 players)…

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as well as for the Solo category:

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Unlocking a new level grants you a chance to win special perks, prizes and a random bonus!

Wish you all a merry christmas and a happy new year, full of moons for Nash :slight_smile:

12 Likes
#22

Copy trading is by far the best idea imho. But the question is if we have the liquidity for it.

1 Like