It's getting uncomfortable

Nash is changing… I don’t know if I like it or not.

As a member of the community since the beginning of the project, I have the feeling I get boated out step by step. All started with the pivot, announced at the beginning of the year. Back then I was already skeptical, and I’m still not a fan of the new direction.

I’ve put a lot of energy into supporting nash as good as I can. Since the middle of last year I wasn’t a trader. I slowly started to learn trading, especially with bots. In December I discovered a trading setup for myself. A lot of time went into programming the trading bot. With the bots success, I’ve founded a trading company with my brother to put even more effort into supporting nash on its way. (not only for nash, also for our self of course.)

Since then every move from nash went against us. Nash put down trading pairs, which were essential for our style of trading. Trading competitions stopped, which significantly reduced the trading activity on the exchange.
Step by step I can’t use the nash app for my daily activities. Currently there is no possibility to check the trading history, as a Tier 3 user we can’t check the created trading volumes and only get the message “unlimited xyz” (no numbers like 35k/month traded), with the latest update it isn’t even possible to perform a manual trade on nash exchange to correct small errors in the fund allocation resulting out of the bot. Everything moved to the stagnating webapp (portfolio not working at the moment btw). Why?

Why nash doesn’t care about this customer segment anymore? I do understand that there is a new focus and the main activities are happening in other sections. But this customer segment doesn’t need new developments, new products, or fancy support. All we need is to be recognized and maintained.

What do I mean with this statement?

Give us our fixed place in the app. With all these new integrations, we were just treated like a football. Just place the L2 exchange here, lets move the trading history there, now hide the orderbook part of the exchange behind this fancy button. Just take all parts of the Layer 2 exchange and place them behind a link like settings → general → layer 2 exchange/nash exchange. Out of the UI for the new users to avoid confusions, but at a fixed place to offer it those who need it. We do exist.

Start a trading competition. I’m sure there are more people than me who are willing to trade on nash. They need a small incentive. Setup the competition in a direction nash is benefiting from it. DON’T use all the received funds for the prices of the competition. As the concept and code for the competition already exists it should be possible for nash to perform such a competition without crazy needs of resources.

  • Traders will benefit as they get a extra for trading
  • Nash inventors will benefit as they get more staking rewards
  • Nash itself will benefit as they gain money by performing the competition
  • Old referral system ended at the end of July, fee shares are more predicable now

tldr; Don’t forget the customers who are trading on nash exchange. Recognize them and maintain them. I’m sure I’m not alone.

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I second @Symiaq concerns, it feels like L2 users are being booted. I can’t even get to USDC/BTC on the mobile app anymore. I cant find BTC or NEO when I search for them.
Did Nash turn into an ETH defi app?
The amount of issues I faced on the exchange recently are really disappointing

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Meanwhile, the L2 exchange is promoted to professional traders on the new website.

How can it serve professional traders if it can’t function properly even for the average user?

The state of the L2 exchange 3 years after the ICO is unacceptable and I am not even talking adoption wise (that is even worse).

I agree mostly… I too am a little concerned… :confused:

I like the pivot in direction and think it was needed, however, I am quite disappointed that the layer-2 exchange has taken such a major back seat…

I am gobsmacked that we haven’t continued any form of the trading league or liquidity mining… :thinking:

We could of continued with a league or something of the sort while the team pivoted and implemented the changes we have seen…
Instead layer-2 volume has dwindled drastically even with a fair few of us running some trading bots and it feels like community engagement has decreased too… :pensive:

These forums have been a ghost town…
Maybe a community manager or something of the sort could be implemented to just engage with the community and work on increasing user activity while the team is hard at work building?

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I don’t have special ‘ambassador insights’ on the matter, but I’ll give my personal two cents on this…

I think it’s important to understand that this pivot is happening because there wasn’t much retail demand for the exchange. This wasn’t unique to Nash – look at every layer-2 solution and you’ll see that, in general, there wasn’t much adoption. Loopring suffered from this, as well as Demex. The fact of the matter is that a CEX beats a DEX in terms of UX every single day. Even if transfers to and from layer-2 were absolutely flawless, how do users manage TX fees in an economical way? All of this was explained in Fabian’s original post (and accompanying blog post).

Also keep in mind that Nash isn’t a huge team. Resources are finite, and building out this new vision is an all-hands-on-deck endeavour. Whether you agree with the new roadmap or not is another matter, but personally I believe Nash is breaking important ground with the new suite of products to be offered (as opposed to being ‘just another DEX’), which will ultimately benefit stakers more than the previous roadmap.

@Symiaq , your situation is really unfortunate. I’m sure everyone would have loved to see your family trading business flourish, including Nash. I don’t think it’s fair to pin this on Nash though – I think you just made a business decision that the overall market didn’t agree with. Had the market decided layer-2 exchanges were the future, and they received as much attention as NFTs did, you would no doubt be in a very great position.

Nash made the pivot because of the direction the market went in – it wasn’t based on a whim and it certainly wasn’t done to leave some community members behind. The new roadmap is taking priority right now, but do also keep in mind that the exchange won’t be leaving. It’s an important piece of the puzzle and will be marketed to professional traders. For now, you can absolutely still use the layer-2 exchange and develop tools for it but I think you’ll need to be patient while Nash’s main suite of ‘Banking, meet crypto’ products roll out.

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I do understand the situation of nash. I agree with the pivot. I’m just not a fan of it since the beginning and my opinion hasn’t changed. But this is okay, it is just a personal opinion.

Also the bot is running and isn’t only based on nash. So, no worries about that side project of mine. I’ve used it to be able to demonstrate the results of the pivot on nash users of an already existing customer segment.

And that is what I want to point towards, because it doesn’t make sense to me.

Why does nash think the customer segment “professional traders” should be “excluded” from using the app for their regular needs?

According to @chris.fenwick on telegram it is reasoned by the choice of target group as well as the complications resulting out of serving Layer 2 inside the app.

I’m sure there are ways to implement the trading features and trading history features inside the app without causing confusions. Until the last update it was a hybrid trading tab. Keep the tab clean and place the Layer 2 trading functions in the settings tab as a bullet point.

I understand professional traders aren’t the primary target group, but there should still be a place in the app for us to cover our daily business. Don’t you think so?

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@pplvee already provided a great response above, so there isn’t much to add.

You say that you “agree with the pivot” but also that you are “not a fan” and “skeptical”. It is hard to make sense of this attitude. If you can see why the pivot was required from a business perspective, then you should be able to see why the L2 is taking a backseat.

I’m sure there are ways to implement the trading features and trading history features inside the app without causing confusions. Until the last update it was a hybrid trading tab. Keep the tab clean and place the Layer 2 trading functions in the settings tab as a bullet point.

We disagree. Hiding a huge area of functionality within “Settings” is not great UX. “Staking” has been moved there for now, but this is temporary until the wallet and settings tabs are redesigned.

The simple fact is that “professional traders” will be using the API or the web app. We need to focus on making the app as clean and simple as possible for hundreds of thousands of new users. The number of people who use the L2 on the mobile app does not justify keeping it there in any form. We’re sorry if you are among that very small number of users, but as a Nash investor you should also be able to understand the purpose of the new app.

We’ve repeatedly stated that the L2 is not being abandoned. We’re even onboarding a new liquidity provider right now. But it’s not the focus of our current efforts. It will likely receive some attention in due course, with a re-vamped web UI.

Trading competitions require more work to organize than you think. Our experience with the past competition was that it did not attract enough new users or generate enough volume to make the exchange (or competition) sustainable. The team does not have unlimited resources and we need to focus right now on polishing our new set of products and promoting them in a targeted fashion.

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I am under the impression that a significant amount of work is required… I am unsure though if I am underestimating just how much… maybe you’re right though and it is too much effort…

That being said, I would like to think that over time the amount of effort needed would be reduced as the methodology used to organize and maintain them is refined and improved…

In regards to not attracting enough new users or generating enough volume… I am hard-pressed to believe that 3 trading leagues are enough to draw a conclusion like that… I would figure you would need at least 12 months worth to draw such a conclusion…

However, you guys are the professionals that I have invested in and I continue to trust in your judgement!

I would assume that I am not the only one with an experience like @Symiaq
In my case, I participated in the liquidity mining and the first trading league (Top 10 volume overall if I remember correctly)
After consulting my Tax Accountant, I decided I needed to set up a business to continue trading or it wasn’t worth it due to tax’s in my home country.
It took me two months to get my affairs in order and create the company and during that time I did not participate in leagues 2 and 3 and did not contribute to any volume on the exchange, since then though, I have been trading on and off and 99% of it has been through the API so you are correct there!

I am surprised you guys offered/awarded so much in prize money, to be honest… no wonder you are saying it was not sustainable…
in my opinion, you could have offered 1/4 or less of what you did and run it 24/7

At the end of the day, the biggest drawback in my eyes by deciding not to continue any form of the trading league or liquidity mining is the decrease in community engagement…
If community engagement has not decreased my mistake and I apologize for providing my two satoshi’s :sweat_smile:

Keep up the hard work - I will always be a Nash fan :slight_smile:

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I don’t have insight into any metrics of nash. Therefore, I can only assume that nash is taking the right approaches. So, I must agree with the pivot. Out of my personal ideas and knowledge, I’m not fully aligned with pushing an existing product, I’ve initially invested my money in, so far in the backseat that it isn’t even visible for new customers anymore.

Maybe this kinda describes my strange attitude, as I must trust nash on its way, but it is conflicting with my personal mindset.

Well, I think I fit more into the category “professional trader” than in any other segment at the moment. Correct, trades are mainly performed by the API - but I haven’t performed any trade on the web app since ages. By using a trading bot, my biggest need is to supervise the trading as good as I can. This supervising is completely done in the nash App. Like if I’m travelling with a subway, I was able to perform this task. If I was relaxing on the weekend at a lake, I was able to perform this task. If I needed to correct a small error, I was able to perform this task. Now? It is mostly uncomfortable. Please try to supervise your trading history and perform a trade on your mobile phone at the web app and share your experience. You will understand what I’m talking about.

I know that nash isn’t going to abandoned the L2 and it is great to see you are still maintaining the product, even if it is not the focus. But why maintain a product (new liquidity provider), when you don’t maintain the customer segment of the product. This isn’t either effective (doing the right things) or efficient (doing the things right). It is the approach to tackle a customer pain, but there is no customer. I must miss something here.

That is why I bring up the idea again to perform a trading competition. It would take care of the customer segment of the professional traders and complete the effort to onboard a new liquidity provider.

I understand your concerns about the trading competition, as it hasn’t reached it set goals. But, with small adjustments you can turn the trading competition into a sustainable program. Change the initial goal of reaching new users to maintain current users. Change the shares of the price money into a range where it is out of its design beneficial for nash. If you redistribute 100% (or even more) from the received fee share (min 25% of all fees) to the traders, it would have always been a unsustainable program.

Also I’m surprised by the argument of limited resources. I can just estimate, but if I think of the tasks for a competition, which lasts for 4 weeks, I would come up with:

  • Setting up the legal framework, existing: 2h
  • Setting up the competition at the technical level, existing: 2h
  • Start the competition, automated in competition setup: 0h
  • Supervise the competition, guess mostly automated - but hard to say so: 5h/week
  • End the competition, automated in competition setup: 0h
  • Distributing the prizes, evaluation of correctness and further details: 20h
  • Some undefined tasks: 8h

By my estimations a 4 week competition would need about 52h of human resources. Whereby, most hours aren’t required from that kind of staff, which is involved in polishing and promoting the new products.

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Just wanted to add the removal of Nash Cash on the L2 exchange as another bullet point - GG WP

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Let’s be honest. More things have been removed recently than new things have been added. I’m beginning to wonder how this is going to continue.

I also can’t explain why anyone is still staking a single token at the moment.

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As a large holder of Nash (respective of what I think large is) I really am quite disappointed with the overall performance of Nash & the product suite. I am eager to move on and unfortunately I cannot as I can’t even find a place to list the token to sell besides Tokok.

The initial platform being a DEX was great, when it worked - even though it lacked pairs I really think that this could have been a really good product if maintained and opened up to other countries around the world. Unfortunately it’s now riddled with issues, every time I’ve used it to perform a single pair exchange I’ve had error messages or issues. The product is NOT stable/nor usable to the market unless you’re waiting a week for an issue to be resolved.

  1. Management The overall attitude of some of the people behind/represent Nash. I wont go into detail here since I’ve been silenced before, however I am happy to walk away from this project purely due to the lack of professionalism. It’s disgusting and even though I have gone to the extent of reporting this in 3 different media channels - there’s been no changes, it seems like many others share the same sentiments based on the number of private messages I’ve received from other community members.

  2. Tokenomics I understand that this is a ‘work in progress’, however this is taking far too long. Tokens are being released from their 24 month stakes, there’s no current incentive to restake.

  3. Ability to trade NEX Yes, as NEX is a security it’s quite obvious that it cannot be listed on any CEX, however right now we have very limited exchanges with almost non existent liquidity. Tokok’s liquidity is bot controlled and not TRUE.

  4. New Features I can’t even use the application due to my country of origin, the new features presented sound great on paper, however it’s no use to me. Knowing this originally I would have never invested in Nash.

  5. Deaf Ears Myself and a few other community members wished to contribute/help Nash with the research to open their services in my country of origin, our voices went upon deaf ears, no response from anyone (Telegram, email etc).

If Nash doesn’t treat and listen to their community then the project unfortunately will fail. Unfortunately it’s time for me to go and part ways with Nash, please just give us an exchange to sell off our tokens and be done with this project. I wish the team the best of luck.

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