Exchange feedback JTb 1

I have been using other exchanges and I thought Nash would build the exchange using a non custodial trading account, but it seems the only non custodial account is the personal account.
So what is the difference between sending tokens from an external account to the trading custodial account (like we do with Binance) and NASH that we need to send funds from our personal account to the trading account? .Am I missing anything?Is the Nash trading account non custodial? . In some ways the configuration of personal account , external and trading account looks similar to bitfinex with the difference only the Nash Personal account is not custodial , but at the end we are incurring in fees (GAS or GWEI) when transferring tokens

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The name “trading account” is an abstraction for non technical people not used to decentralized exchanges. You can check on any blockchain explorer when you do personal<>trading you are not sending funds to any hot wallet but to a state channels contract.

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@canesin I’ve just checked this on the neoscan explorer.

For my account, all my funds have been sent from my personal account to the trading account. When I look on Neoscan.io it shows my explorer balance of 0 for my public key.

All the funds have been sent via “invocation” to this address AFwYT3HDAwkTneE8JytrCG1MWAFaqBUmnr. It appears to me like I no longer hold the funds.

How can I tell that they are locked in a state channel?
How can I access those funds if needed?

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Fabio,
Thanks for your reply.
Does it mean that nobody can hack my trading account? Is it impossible?

That doesn’t mean we control the funds in any form, on the contrary. A InvocationTransaction on NEO is when a user calls a function on a smart contract.

In most blockchains everything has an address, that is the address of the channels contract. The contract script hash is 0xe48dde213ee6e51cbc0a888339b335dc6122d401 (publish TX) which translates to address AFwYT3HDAwkTneE8JytrCG1MWAFaqBUmnr. You can verify that with a tool such as https://neocompiler.io/#!/ecolab/conversor

Looking at the contract ABI you will see a initiateManualWithdrawal function that can be called to reclaim funds directly on the blockchain. In the mid term we will provide a open source tool (desktop app or static webapp) to allow people to easily call this function on the a nuclear war scenario.

Summary: when you transfer funds to the trading account you are establishing the trading channels and calling the corresponding smart contracts to allocate the funds. You could issue a withdrawal directly to the blockchain but we discourage that until we provide a helper tool as we want to avoid users making mistakes.

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Nothing is impossible to be hacked, one important part of Nash is not wrapping tokens, so that they are as safe as the blockchain they run on.

The trading accounts security model requested that your keys are compromised or the blockchain is compromised. If someone gets control of Nash he can’t move your funds, he still needs your signature on the movements.

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I made my first buy order today, Eth/Bat pair. In my user experience from Cexes sending from personal to trading account in decentralized way is a lot slower. People will need time to get used to it. We all know that Eth is not fast transaction chain for now. I wonder how long will this procedure take time when Nash implements Btc pairs ?
Comparing tx fees in Cex and here it seems we pay fee for depositing (same as Cex) but also pay fees as we transfer from personal to trading account (Cex don’t have this fee). Will there be tx fees from traiding to personal again? Last one is from personal to externa accountl ( fees are same as for Cex.)
My question is
will Nash be able to compete regarding fees comparing to Cexes?

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Nash is already much more competitive in fees!

We don’t charge any fee at all. What you pay is network fees, that regardless where you are transacting needs to be paid (if not the network would not process the transaction).

Bellow is the comparison table, fees in ETH (based on current Fast network fee):

Nash Binance Coinbase Coinbase Pro Kraken
Deposit 0.0003 0.0003 0.0003 0.0003 0.0003
Withdraw 0.0003 0.01 0.0003 0.0003 0.005
Trading (C2C) 0.25%T + 0%M 0.1%T + 0.1%M 2% 0.25%T + 0.15%M 0.26%T + 0.16%M
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Tomislav makes a good point … i suppose theres no way of automating the signing process to bounce the deposited BTC in to the trading account? instead of sending a deposit to account and then again to the contract channel ?

BTC is so slow

Also anyone thinking about network fees think of this… every fee pushed on to the network is one less cost for Nash in terms of servers and databases … and on and on.

those reductions in operating costs can be transferred to the user/customer. when we scale up we can reduce trading fees because we are a “leaner” operation

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It’s sad certain blockchains have set arbitrary limitations which has allowed for this to happen but unfortunately is something projects need to work around. Hopefully won’t be the case couple years down the line.

I personally understand chain fees are price of decentralization. This will probably exclude smaller traders cause chain fees will eat their eventual profit. @redk understood what i was trying to say. If sending directly to trade account is even possible it would be great addition. Or any other solution would be nice if possible.
How will API trades work in future? Will those funds go directly to matching engine ?

One more suggestion when placing a buy/sell order would be nice to have small arrow showing where user bet is in market list. This is small helpful addition and wouldn’t be hard to implement.

After the initial deposit of funds onto Nash, there’s no extra transfers if using Nash wallet as main wallet.

With CEXs, we transfer from external wallet to exchange when wanting to trade and back again when finished. The same can be done with personal and trading account on Nash.

Yes, but when you transfer from personal to trading account you pay chain fee (eth for example).
Have you made any trade yet on Nash platform ?

Just like you would from an external wallet to a CEX is what I was saying

you didn’t get me. When you transfer from personal to trading you pay chain fee. When you send back from trading to personal you pay again. And so on. Each personal to trading and vice versa will take small chain fee… Cex just change numbers without any fee.
Coins never left the platform.

I don’t think you got what I was saying but it’s maybe the way I worded it.

What I meant was once I deposit Eth onto Nash and pay that initial transaction fee, I look at personal and trading account similar to how external wallet and cex accounts works - a fee needed to transfer between them.

The one extra transfer and fee is not ideal if depositing tokens to Nash regularly but if only sporadically, a non issue for me. CEX withdrawal fees are typically much higher

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just try moving assets back an fort from personal to trading and vice versa and you will see my point . You explanation don’t include coins on exchange anymore. they are off Cex in that case. Here they are still on “Dex” although you hold them in your wallet or trading wallet. People will need time to catch this kind of concept

I edited my post above to explain what I meant more clearly… fully aware how Nash works

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I did understood you. How will regular Joe understand this concept. It’s new for us all .I guess it will need time to catch the idea of owning your tokens almost in whole process of trading. It’s small price paying the network fee for big level of security.