Tether USDT

Exchange
#31

Why should nash implement/list USDT?

Its legal status is questionable. Also the argument of liquidity is nonsense for me.
I think we all can agree on the point that a stable coin is needed.
In my opinion it doesn’t matter which stable coin is used for trading pairs, the traders will use it.

When there is no USDT listed, people will automatically use the option of the available stable coin. It doesn’t matter to them, if it is USDT or USDC. It is just important to them that the coin is stable.
On other exchanges people are forced to use USDT, because USDT has the most liquidity there. But it is just a tool for the exchange. Nearly no one is transferring USDT to his or her personal wallet.

Because the volume of USDT is just ‘inside’ the exchange, I don’t think that listing USDT will bring volume to an exchange. I think the same amount of volume will also be created with any other stable coin which is listed instead.

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#32

Liquidity is the only reason to list USDT, more liquidity supports more traders with larger position sizes which leads to larger trade volumes, inversely less liquidity supports fewer traders with smaller position sizes leading to smaller trade volumes.

The more liquidity there is the less slippage you get and therefore you can use larger position sizes with lower risk. Yes traders will use whatever is available but the volumes will be lower if the risk is higher (slippage is greater). Also running stops in illiquid markets is much easier and requiers way less capital, anyone who’s placed their stoploss against a TUSD pair instead of USDT will know what I’m talking about.

Low liquidity is fine when the market is stable however since crypto is super volatile there’s always a need for a safe-haven when things go south. When everyone’s running for the door they’ll want to have a deep orderbook so they can exit their position with the smallest amount of slippage possible, a stable coin that’s illiquid is not stable in this scenario.

There’s a difference between using a stable coin to have a “cash position” (read savings) vs using a stable coin to “exit a position”, if you really want to be smart use the liquid less legally compliant stable coin (USDT) to exit your position then trade that for the legally compliant (USDC) stable coin to establish your cash position / savings.

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#33

Tether may have the largest volume of stable coins however it is also the most controversial. If it collapses it will be a very good thing it is not listed on Nash. Best to stick to tokens are are not possible scams and are audited and backed by real USD.

#34

That argument is definitely valid, however last time it almost collapsed everyone holding Tether just moved it straight into BTC driving loads of volume, so for the exchange itself that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

Nash’s reputation doesn’t directly equate to that of Tether assuming the masses can differentiate between a market that offers a product and the product itself. (less so for Bitfinex I’d assume)

Also I’d like to know how Tether can actually collapse if there’s no off-ramp and users can’t convert their USDT to USD there’s no way to have any kind of “Bank Run” on Tether. Does that only leave the market’s perception of it’s value (read the illusion of Tether having value) switching from “Tether is bad” to “Tether is worthless”? Assuming that’s the case what’s the difference between Tether and USD itself?

Thoughts?

Personally I’d like to see one of the Gold backed tokens become widely adopted and liquid negating the need for Fiat-backed tokens altogether. Preferably one that allows users to take physical delivery.

#35

I agree with this. USDT is almost never sent between exchanges. It’s used as a stable coin within an exchange. People will use whatever is there. I really don’t understand the argument that Tether will bring liquidity.

#36

This statement is false Tether is shady yes but not illiquid, sauce on page 37.

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Also Binance has a ~$730m Tether balance, USDC has a ~$250m market cap the maths here is quite simple, but who knows if Tether dies maybe Binance will die along with it…

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#37

Thanks. Touche. Was naive of me to say “almost never” based only on my own trading experience. Still I feel more safe knowing that the more compliant USDC is used.

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#38

@CypherInvestor

I agree with you that there need to be a liquid market with a stable coin to lower slippage effects and where you can exit your position without worries. When you start talking about ‘exit a position’ and a ‘cash position’ I see that this is kinda smart way, but it is definitely not user friendly.

The diagram you have posted doesn’t tell me a lot. I see that a big amount of USDT got distributed over several exchanges. It is in a time frame from the Thether genesis block till the 31 march 2018. Basically all transactions that have happen to the bigger exchanges. Due to the diagram we cannot say if this has all happened at the beginning, in the middle or at the end of the time. We don’t know when the volume occurred. So we also cannot say if USDT is liquid between exchanges. It was because it need to get distributed to the exchanges (otherwise people can’t trade there against USDT), but if it still is I won’t bet on it.

Overall I just want to say:
I think it doesn’t matter, if USDT, USDC or any other stable coin will be the initial stable coin of the exchange. Liquidity won’t be generated through a stable coin. A stable coin cause liquidity because it is an essential need of a trader.

#39

I understand your points. Thank you for elaborating your opinion.

What do you think of traders that avoid USDC and favor USDT? There are (large) investors out there that (for their own reasons) avoid USDC, right?

#40

however last time it almost collapsed everyone holding Tether just moved it straight into BTC driving loads of volume

Yeah if you’re referring to the event that happened in mid October 2018 when Tether pumped BTC because of unconfirmed rumors that Binance would delist USDT, I remember that. The issue is though that Tether was never in danger of collapsing at that moment so we can’t assume that is how things would play out in a real collapse.

The question is if Tether were to collapse would people be able to have time to sell their Tether into BTC in any significant quantity. What would a stable coin collapse really look like? We’re not sure as it has never happened yet, however I would assume it would be similar to BitConnect’s collapse, when real news is received that Tether is insolvent or for example “Tether Limited” has been shut down by the US government. People will dump their Tether against other crypto pairs for pennies just to get out and the price of tether will crater in a flash. Some will wake up in the morning to find their tether holdings -95% with no chance of ever being made whole. If Tether is on Nash then there will be a lot of angry people and they will lash out. I don’t think it would be a good thing.

Personally I’d like to see one of the Gold backed tokens become widely adopted and liquid negating the need for Fiat-backed tokens altogether. Preferably one that allows users to take physical delivery.

That would be great. It would be nice to have something like a truly gold backed crypto but again transparency and audits would have to be preeminent. I look forward to the day when Bitcoin has become the stable coin.

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#41

The point of the second screenshot demonstrating Binance’s Tether balance to be 3x the entire market cap of USDC proves that USDC wouldn’t be able to meet the needs of those traders i.e. provide the same depth to orderbooks and support the same volume of trades due to USDC’s limited supply.
One way to solve this might be to have all USDC purchases via the fiat on-ramps mint new USDC tokens thus increasing USDC’s market cap / circulating supply. I’m not sure if that’s even possible but if it is I’d like to see the team pursue such a solution.

I’m also looking forward to the day Bitcoin becomes the stable coin and if we can use a transparent, audited, gold backed token that offers physical delivery in the meantime that’d be great!

Ultimately it’ll come down to the legal implications of listing Tether and the teams decision, but I think it’s been worth discussing the pros and cons as well as getting a feel for what the community thinks.

@Symiaq & @Moon thanks for the feedback, analysis and insight I’m impressed by the well thought out responses in this thread and in the community forum in general. The team’s decision to have a barrier to entry, good community management and guidelines seems to have kept out the trolls for the time being, resulting in a community that’s one of the better corners of the internet / crypto space thus far.

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#42

Guess this settles the debate. When criminal charges?

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#43

After the investigation is over no doubt, I hope they bury them.

#44

Something more transparent would be better as a stable coin, gemini dollar or other.

#45

@cammofunk They have already announced USDC as the initial stable coin.

3 Likes
#46

Just to play devils advocate once again I’d say this is definitely worth a listen, I still think there’s a risk associated with the negative “group think” going on around Tether and deciding not to list USDT without doing some solid research. There’s a huge arbitrage market opportunity we’ll be missing out on by not listing Tether, if I understand correctly there’s a ton of on-chain arbitrage related transactions happening on Tether that aren’t happening on-chain with USDC. It’d be wise for Nash to expose themselves to that market if they’re satisfied with the legitimacy of Tether. Maybe it’s worth it for the team to reach out to iFinex and come to their own conclusion. Skip to 1:07:15
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#47

I think the issue is no one is satisfied with the legitimacy of tether other than Bitfinex and for some strange reason all the employees at Blockstream. At one point they were short over $850M in reserves, meaning if everyone went to cash a tether out at the same time people would be left holding a bag (fractional reserve?)

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#48

This is a good topic of discussion, since there are good arguments to be made for both the decission to include as wel as to exclude Tether markets. It all comes to a weighing of which risk you are willing to take.

Excluding Tether markets from the exchange would mean we would miss out on the most widely used stable coins there is to date. For the exchange, this (theoretically) could create liquidity problems, which could discourage larger players from trading on our platform because of the slippage.

Including Tether markets on the exchange would probably have a positive effect on the liquidity of our exchange. However, as the conduct of the company has been opaque (stating it lightly), exposure to these markets comes with another risk. In the event where the trust Tether diminishes, or if there would be a cease and desist order from the authorities, this would probably lead to an exodus from tether the likes we’ve never seen before. Taking into account that quite a few exchanges have large tether holdings, it’s not out of the realm of possibilities they would trade their holdings for any coin/token that has any value. As insiders usually know this kind of information before the public, retail investors would probably be holding the bag in the end.

However, one could make a compelling case it’s not our responsibility to babysit retail investors. They should’ve done their due diligence and understand the underlining value/risks what they are trading. Furthermore, we would probably profit quite a lot from such an event since there would be a lot of trading volume in such a scenario. On the other hand, i feel the implosion of tether could damage the trust in cryptocurrencies as a whole. Including it as a trading pair would legitimise it only further, possibly creating bigger problems further up the road. All in all, i’m a bit conflicted on the issue. The pragmatist in me says we should include tether, the idealist says we should refrain from it.

Taking both sides into consideration, i have to say that the pragmatist in me has the upperhand. As long as it’s legal to trade Tether, i don’t think it’s wise to take the risk from excluding our exchange from such a huge market. It’s a free market after all, and people should be hold accountable for their own actions. Furthermore, as a start-up, i think it’s important to remember our place in the space and focus on what we need to do in order to survive. We could adjust course on this issue on a later time-frame anyways.

Well that are my thoughts on this topic. However, I can perfectly understand if the team differs on the issue.

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Plans to pursue facebooks global coin as a listing?
#50

Hi all, I just read through this thread to see if Nash will list USDT/any stablecoin in the near future but did not seem to get an answer. @DeadPool_56 asked this question when he created this thread.

Does anyone know if a stable coin would be listed after the launch of the exchange? It would also be great if the Nash team can give us a clarification on this. @canesin

Thank in advance.

#51

Yes, USDC at launch